Thursday, December 17, 2009

3.3 Dual Wield Death Knight Tanking

This will be the last of my guides for the immediate future. I try to limit myself only to specs that I'm playing, basically just trying to pass along the research I'd do anyways.  Recently, I've been spending a lot of time tanking (wow, is it easy to get into heroics this way or what?) and I know that there was a good amount of interest in my first cut at a DW DK tanking build.  I have various articles scattered around here, so this is my effort to bring them together in one convenient location, plus update for the 3.3 patch.  Anyways, let's get down to business.

First things first: The Spec.
With the new DW friendly talents that Blizz gave us in 3.2, it's very important to be sure you're specced correctly for any sort of dual wielding. This means basically for DW you must get the following two talents: Nerves of Cold Steel and Threat of Thassarian. You can see if you'd like to click that my 8/55/8 spec reflects these. Additionally, I've taken many of the traditional frost tanking talents.

I didn't modify this spec for 3.3; I didn't see the need (edit: I actually did change a few things, see comments below. Still the same basic spec though).  I'm also continuing to go Frost because I love the AoE abilities that the spec gives me.  I don't think I can function without Howling Blast.  Plus, since I'll be DPSing as a Frost, staying similar as a tank helps decrease the retardation of my fingers.  I don't know about you, but when I switch specs, if similar spells aren't in similar places, I'll spend the first few pulls looking like a newb.

In any case, there isn't a whole lot of science or math going into my tank spec.  I just tried to take all the damage reduction abilities available to me.  It was really that simple.  If you, the reader, can see obvious flaws or trade-offs, please let me know in comments because I'd love to fine-tune this spec now that I'm using it more.  As I mentioned in my DPS guide, DK's are still something I feel that I'm learning.

The Glyphs
Secondly, it's important to note that I'm going with the following glyphs:
Disease is a must for AoE pulls.  Love spreading my corruption, even as a DK.  Unbreakable Armor is also very useful as you should be using your tanking cool-downs religiously.  I finally caved and went with Howling Blast.  For AoE pulls, getting the single disease spread quickly is going to be very useful I think.  I'd used both Rune Strike and Obliterate glyphs before for the single target threat, but I don't think ST is going to be an issue.  I'd like to buff my AoE ability and the last major glyph choice does this.  The minors are the same I used for DPS and for the same reason: extending the horn is good, free ghoul is good, and larger disease area is good.  Simple enough, right?

Stats, Gear, and Runes. Oh My!
If you're just starting out, pick up two Teldrassil Protectors from the Argent Tournament, because these are a great place to start for 1H tanking weapons. The fact that they have defense and parry is really good for a DK DW tank. Most 1h weapons may waste some points on block, which is obviously useless for us.

The rest of my gear is your typical DK tanking fare.  You're looking for defense first.  You need to cap at 540 before doing any sort of raid (535 for heroics, but I would suggest even being 540 here, as most randoms will expect at least this).  After cap, defense isn't completely wasted (a la hit), so you shouldn't be afraid of being over cap, but it certainly devalues quite a bit.  At that poing, you'll really want to start looking at your other stats.  Let's list them out in semi-particular order:
  • Defense (D) - First priority is to hit cap, then if it comes, it comes.
  • Armor (D) - Stick with plate and you should be fine.  Armor should increase as you upgrade.  The point here is just don't go with anything that's not plate.
  • Stamina (D) - You need a good amount of health to absorb damage.  I think I'm sitting around 33k right now.  This will vary greatly with buffs, but this is a great stat to gem for.
  • Dodge (D) - This is a great avoidance stat since you'll elude 100% of the dodged ability's damage.  It's been said that you want to shoot for between 20-25% before you start experience diminishing returns and think strongly about other stats.  At that point I'd choose Parry over Dodge.  Those yellow gems slots are great for this once you're defense capped.
  • Parry (D) - As a DW DK tank, this is a great stat for us.  Our Rune Strike (great threat ability) procs off of parries.  Plus a parry allows us to avoid damage and when we parry, we hit faster (parry/haste mechanic).  So this is a good all around stat.
  • Expertise (T) - This will help your melee hits land without being parried or dodged by a boss.  It's not essential that we get capped as a tank, but it will certainly help with threat generation and is good to have.  It will also cut down on the parry/haste mechanic (it works both ways) for bosses.
  • Strength (T) - Strength will boost your parry AND help your threat, so it's great to have.  If you're balancing your defensive stats above, this along with hit are probably the only offensive stats you should look for.
  • Hit (T) - You don't want to have some of your key abilities miss, so hit is a good thing.  It sucks when a PS or IT misses and you have to waste a second GCD on the ability.  Hitting more will also really help your threat.
I say "semi-particular" because these are listed in a rough priority of what I value.  I also labelled then with either a (D) or (T), indicating "Defensive" or "Threat" stats, respectively.  Tanking is a lot different from DPS, though, as I believe you really have to strive for a stat balance rather than stacking one or two to the exclusion of all else.  You need to be able to withstand a wide variety of attacks, and different attacks will be affected differently by each stat.  Thus, what may be great in one boss encounter may not be all that great in another.  Also, if you go all defense and cause no threat, you're not going to be a very good tank.  So really, you have to evaluate your own performance and stats on a daily basis (or however often you run) and decide what you need to stack now.  This doesn't mean you have to re-gem and re-enchant every five seconds, but it will make you choose different weightings depending on what gear drops when.

You've probably heard about Expertise and Hit capping. For hit, with the Nerves of Cold Steel talent, we only need to gather a paltry 5% hit. "But wait!" you may say, "I thought DW imposed a penalty that means you need a whopping 27% hit in order not to miss." Yea, I say to you, that is indeed the case for white noise hits. That is most certainly NOT the case for melee based special attacks, where we need 8% (minus the 3% from the talent gives us 5%). Now, we do gain some benefit by going higher, since we rely on spells and they don't cap until 17% (minus 3% gives us 14%)... but you really don't see as much of a threat/dps gain from hit after 8% than you do from stacking other important stats. If you can pick up more, fine, just don't sacrifice better stats for it.  For expertise, 21 is our cap with the Tundra Stalker talent, but racials based on weapon type also decrease this.  You shouldn't worry too much about hitting either of these caps (except maybe the 5% hit one), as the other stats are more important.

Finally, you're going to want to head to the runeforge to get your weapons to glow.   I was ecstatic that Blizz introduced Rune of Nerubian Carapace with patch 3.3.  DW tanks were definitely at a disadvantage for lack of a tailor-made tanking rune.  First thing I did was slap one of these on each weapon.  I've got a healthy buffer on my defense cap, but the stam boost is also good and I'll be able to focus on my other stats for a bit.

The Rotation
Just because tanking is more reflexive doesn't mean that we shouldn't go in without a plan.  As usual, our plan must be two fold: one for AoE situations and one for single targets.

Single Target
The very first thing I try to do here is put on diseases.  After that, I'll Obliterate and Frost Strike as I can, keeping the diseases up. I don't want to FS too much so as to leave myself with enough RP to hit Rune Strike whenever the button lights up.  Remember, Rune Strike is proc dependent (on a Parry), which we should be doing a lot of as DW tanks.  Also, it's one of our best threat attacks. You really should be doing a lot of rune strikes, basically hitting it whenever that button lights up.  Since RS is not attached to your GCD and doesn't really have a cooldown, it shouldn't really effect your tanking "rotation".  Just hit it and go about your business.

An easy way to make sure your Rune Strike is always used is to attach the following macro to all of your commonly used spells:

/cast Normal Spell Name Here
/cast !Rune Strike

The above macro will activate your Rune Strike whenever it's available and allow you to pretty much forget about it, while keeping it active as much as possible and pushing your threat to untold heights!

Since I have the glyph of Disease on my tank but not the Howling Blast glyph, I do have to pay attention to my Icy Talons buff to try to keep that refreshed for the good of the raid.  I'm not as good about this on my tank as I am on my DPS spec, since I have other, more important responsibilities, but it isn't really that bad as you may not want to AoE in single target situations anyways.  Plus if you have RS macro'ed to IT, you're killing two tickbirds with one key button press.

Multiple Targets
For multiple target situations where you have to hold aggro over AoE attacks and for other reasons, different skills will come into play.  It will also make a rotational approach more cumbersome, as you'll run into some cool down issues and such.  I welcome suggestions on how to weave this stuff together better, but I think it's just how it goes when you're trying for high AoE threat.

A big part of any AoE trash-zerg is going to be the initial burst threat.  With the ease of trash and threat generation in this expansion, DPS have been taught to be impatient on pulls and just open up right away.  As a tank, you'll need to be prepared for this and front load your approach accordingly.  Thus, I lead off with a DnD immediately followed by a Howling Blast.  These spells represent a good combo of both burst and non-burst threat generation, giving you a great set up that usually keeps trash locked on you until death with little or no more threat needed.

However, if it's going to be a longer fight, then I'll try to put up diseases and use Pest to spread them. Usually it becomes a bit awkward with runes at this point, but I usually have enough of a lead that I can use some of my RP dumps to pump up threat on a single target.  I might even jump around with a tab target to spread out some FS's.  After that I just try to keep up diseases and throw in a HB whenever I can, not really returning to a DnD cast unless there is a fresh wave of mobs joining in.  DnD is a great spell, it just takes a lot of runes away.

Speaking of waves (thing Gothik in Naxx), the approach there has to be a bit different as well.  When I know I'm going to be getting waves, I'll just save enough runes to try and keep up my DnD/HB combo with each waves, just mixing RP dumps in between or auto-attacking.  Waves usually die fast enough that the initial aggro is enough, but it can be tricky.

In all situations you'll want to spread out your cool-downs as well.  As frost DK's, we have three we want to be aware of: Anit-Magic Shield, Unbreakable Armor, and Icebound Fortitude.  The Anti-Magic shield is great for when your group is getting AoE'ed or attacked by, you guessed it, magic.  The last two are going to decrease incoming damage in general, so are great to stagger to give you healers a break or when you can anticipate a big hit from a baddy.  They have pretty short cool-downs, so should be used more often than you'd think.  Knowing the tough parts on fights is key as a tank, and saving these abilities accordingly can be the difference between success and failure.  Know what they do, and try to figure out when to use them.   Communicate with your healers.

Other than that, it's mostly a priority system more than a rotation: just try to use the right skills at the right time. It's been my experience that a tanking "rotation" is better off being flexible since you have to react a lot more but is also more forgiving since you don't have to be perfect to generate good threat. You just have to do the right things at the right time and stay alive.  

That's how I tank, in all it's gory.  I mean glory.  I'm not perfect at it by any means, but I've done it well enough in both raid and heroic situations to enable the group's success.  This is a role I'm still learning how to play and will be for some time to come.  I usually rely on Fuu for gear/stat advice and just try to adapter her Lighter thinking to my shadowy ways.  It's really an unholy combination.  Well frost, but also unholy.  You get what I'm saying.  (Boy, DK puns are fun).
Thanks for reading and suggestions/comments are always welcome.  Feel free to tell me to l2tank, cuz I probably need to.  Above all, you stay classy, WoW tanking community.


  1. Good guide. I was looking for advice on the AoE rotation for DW frost. Most guides suggest leading off with DnD and diseases, but like you, I've found that using the DnD + HB combo works best.

  2. Yeah, it really depends on the situation. For snap aggro, I don't think you can beat the DnD + HB combo. The problem is that it'll take you a bit to get your diseases up due to rune cooldowns. Thus, in a situation where you need to lock them down for a long period of time, disease are probably better. Sometimes I'll even do HB + Diseases and save the DnD for later.

    I'm really contemplating putting the howling glyph back on my tank so that the Frost Fever is spread by my HB... this would kill two birds with one stone and really make this question a moot point.

    In the end, try out different combinations and see what works best for you. Just realize that snap aggro is different from long term AoE aggro... thus you need to anticipate the situation.

  3. Great Guide. I just switched to DW Tank and it took some getting used to but I found using DND + HB works great when I'm pugging Random Dungeons. DPS just goes crazy and I'm a noob for not gaining and keep aggro fast enough when everyone targeting different mobs. But I digress, I am also considering going HB Glyph to replace Rune Strike Glyph. I'm currently using UB Armor Glyph instead of disease, it seems to be very potent. Thanks again.

  4. TY - and it's definitely hard to choose between the various Glyphs. Unlike my warlock... there are just so many useful DK glyphs!

  5. Let me preface this by saying that I myself am a casual player; People like me know better than anyone that many people don't spend time dissecting their spec. But dude... I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but your spec is VERY different from the best DW tanking spec. You want something like this:

    There's a few points you can move around in this build; i took Deathchill because i like to open up with an auto-crit Howling Blast

    Talents to drop:

    Acclimation (situational at best; there are much better places to spend your points)

    Unholy Command (getting 10 seconds off the CD of

    Death Grip is not worth 2 talent points. I can't remember the last time i actually needed a second Death Grip on the same pull)

    Morbidity (Howling Blast covers your AoE threat. You don't need D&D up all the damn time.)

    Merciless Combat (This one isn't terrible, but it's more of a PvP Burst talent than anything else. Unless you have a specific encounter that requires super speedy boss burn-down after 35%, DON'T TAKE THIS)

    Hungering Cold (Ten second duraiton. If that doesn't scream "PvP talent!" at you, you need more help than i can give you here)

    Icy Talons/Imp Icy Talons (SIX TALENT POINTS! You can get some serious threat from talents elsewhere)

    Talents to pick up:

    Black Ice (10% damage on almost every attack you use!? Hells-yeah!)

    Bladed Armor (At first glance it doesn't seem to be that great, but this shines brightest when you're in Frost Presence, which is ALL THE TIME)

    Guile of the Gorefiend (Self-explanitory. It's just too good to miss)

    Glacier Rot (See above)

    So, I hope i wasn't too preachy in this; I just happened upon your site and saw what a sub-optimal par it is.

  6. No, this is great stuff. Thank you for the link and the dissection. I haven't really analyzed the spec very much and was hoping for just this kind of feedback... I haven't seen very much in my limited research (mostly since many are suggesting the 2H tanking builds, and even then going other trees).

    RE: specific talents...

    Morbidity - I wondered about this. Almost everywhere reccomends leading off with a DnD and disease for AoE pulls, but I really don't like using DnD. I know it's "high threat" but it costs too many runes, IMO. I certainly don't end up using DnD as much as most, so could definitely get rid of points here.

    For Icy Talons - What if it's not about the threat and it's about the benefit to the raid? Raid wise haste buff? Yes please. I've heard it's a good thing. It is a lot of points though...

    I like the suggestions and when I get a better chance to look at this in depth (I'm afWoW for the weekend), I may make some updates based on this. Thanks!

  7. This comment has been removed by the author.

  8. Okay, so I've given it a bit more thought, and I'm going to go with:

    I'll probably update my post here in just a second, but the basic idea is just that I filled up Guile of the Gorefiend by removing points from Merciless Combat (putting one in Black Ice cuz I can't access the higher talents without it) and the two points in the DG talent (probably unneeded).

    I didn't choose to do some of the other suggestions because they all seemed to be talents that are for increasing my damage done. I'm not really having a threat problem, I'm having a survival problem... so speccing out of talents like acclimation that, while they may be situational, are certainly more defensive oriented... I just can't do it. You name good talents, but they're offensive, not defensive.

  9. Here's the thing about Icy Talons - I know it's shiny, a 20% melee speed buff, but you, as a tank, should be far more worried about threat and mitigation than the rest of your raid's DPS. Not to mention that if even a single other person there also has the Icy Talons buff, like a frost DW DPS, you have just WASTED those talent points. (NOTE: this is NOT haste! Haste affects all of your special abilities and global cooldown. This does not. It gives YOU 5% haste, and everyone a 20% melee speed buff)

    I definately agree with you about Morbidity, but not about Death & Decay. I suppose it's a personal difference, as i doubt there's a critical loss of threat either way. I tend to use Death & Decay almost every AoE Pull (and i almost never don't have it up), though less so when i can't afford to use the Glyph of Howling Blast, which is a personal favorite of mine that i use whenever i can spare the space for it (which is usually only when i'm not boss tanking. For trash or OTing adds, though, it's great.)

    --Vir, same poster as before (the long excessively preachy post about talents, lol)

    P.S. Please don't take my information distribution as an insult to y'all's intelligence, experience, dedication, or casual playstyle. You don't have to be any of those things to be wrong, or vice versa. All you need to be is unlucky enough to be incorrect.

  10. Also, about Bladed Armor: I know it doesn't look like much, but with 20k armor, you get 111 AP from EACH point invested in this, and that's not even very much armor from for a DK in Frost Presence. In addition, it scales with your gear, so you'll get even MORE benifit from it late on.

  11. Ok, just read your most recent post before my second one...

    Uh... the ONLY defensive talent i recommended getting rid of was Acclimation, because it's not that great. Keep it if you want, i can't stop you, but get rid of the others. They're less bang for your buck than the ones i suggested.

    As for acclimation, it does have SOME uses, but they are few and far between. Many of the places you would expect to use it (Sarth 3D, IC, etc.) don't proc it reliably enough to keep it up. The only places where it does are on fights with lots of low level damage, or damage you shouldn't be taking in the first place (Ignis is a mix of the two). If you can spare the 3 points from something else, why not, but all the frost tanking specs I've ever seen are really hurting for points. They're almost always better spent on something else.

  12. Yeah, you're definitely making some good points.... I need to do some more tweaking with it to get it to where I want it.

  13. So I'm liking this variation:

    I take Icy Talons on my DPS spec... I don't need it on my tank spec. Mostly because if I'm tanking, the raid can go to hell and get their own utility. :-). In any case, it probably is a lot wasted for a tank.

    I think I'll give it a run tomorrow and then update here if it goes well.

  14. So basically what I did with those points are put them in Black Ice and Glacier Rot. I like the straight up increase in damage (read: threat) that really isn't "proc" dependent or anything. I love buffing the raid damage on my DK, but as a tank it's almost counterproductive since my job is to keep aggro on everything. I need to make sure I have plenty of room there FIRST...

    I also wanted to put a point in bladed armor. Like was mentioned above: when you're a tank you're going to have tons of armor anyways and this should help threat a lot, even with one point: it's a lot of AP.

    Guile of Gorefiend is a must because I use IBF a lot as a tank... having it last longer is good stuff.

    I also got rid of the death grip cooldown reduction because, really, it's unnecessary. I'm finding more and more stuff I'd like to grip as being immune anyways (and for trash pulls you rarely need more than one).

    Thanks go to Vir above for coaxing me to re-examine some of my poorer talent choices :-).

    I'm going to go ahead and update the post with the latest spec for now, but it will be an on-going trial and error process based on my raid performance.

  15. I also did a minor edit of my Glyph section: I've applied the glyph of HB here to spread that disease more quickly. This makes a DnD-HB combo extremely potent and is my goal. My single target threat wasn't really suffering and AoE pulls are harder usually... especially with Blizz's recent fondness of add waves and crap.

    I dropped the glyph of Rune Strike, though it was a great single target threat boost. If you're having ST problems, you may keep RS at the expense of HB.

  16. No problem, glad to be of help. I went through the same process when i started tanking on my DK. I looked at the talents, picked what seemed to make sense to me at the time, and then ended up rearranging a decent chunk of my spec after i got some feedback on it.

    I personally like the glyph of Howling Blast a lot, too, and since i'm usually hitting HB every time the cooldown is up, i don't need D&D usually more than once every 30 seconds. But with add waves, you might find yourself in a tight spot. To each their own.

    I still recommend losing Acclimation for Bladed Armor; Just think, you got a ton of AP from just one point. You'll get just as much from each subsequent point. But hey, maybe it'll come in handy to have a bit of extra magic mitigation. I hear Hodir's Frozen Blows are a perfect use for that (though, admittedly, i'm not sure it's worth the points).

    Anyway, good luck tanking, and Merry Christmas!


  17. Yep, ty again and Merry Christmas!

  18. Just a word from an experienced Dual Wield DK Tank, as with a 2hnd DK you need to use the slowest DPS weapon you can obtain. IE 2hnd is like 3.6. For a dual wield DK it should be around 2.6. The new ICC5 instance has 2 decent weapons that are easily obtainable.

    I have seen to many Dual Wield tanks taking fast tanking weapons and stating they are using the because the are "tanks".

    Also note that in transitioning between tier lvls keeping your Expertise at 26-32 will be quite difficult. Try to plan ahead if you can.

    But from experience - dual wield tanking is quite fun. Much more enjoyable to play then a blood tank. We actually get to watch for procs and such rather then brainless face rolling.

    I use the AOE rotation of: DnD, IT, PS, Pest, Blood Tap, BB then switch up to HB. It all depends on what gear lvl you are at and what your DPS is at.

  19. You dont want to be wasting points in acclimation on your frost spec, u want to be taking deathchill, critting with HB on your initial pull is great for snap aggroing the targets

    also you want to be taking chill of the grave and butchery as with DW you want to be having all the RP u can get to dump Fune strike AND frost strike as much as possible

  20. What would the single-target rotation look be? Something like IT-BS-BS-OB(FS) then 3 x OB(FS) with a RS when it's available?

  21. I still us PS after IT, but yeah... about that. I might throw in a Pest to refresh my diseases too depending on how I'm doing on runes and stuff. One GCD as opposed to two and all...

  22. I asked on the DPS post as well, are there any particularly good tanking sigils? I'm still getting my gear together (working on DPS first) but hope to tank soon.

  23. Sigil of Insolence is the Triumph tanking sigil. Though I've been running with my DPS one and it's not terrible cuz it helps with threat. If you've got the emblems though, that is the one to get.

  24. Hi, firstly ty a lof for grat posts. I'm trying to learn DW Frost tanking and I have realy big problems with AoE aggro. Please can you send your current build and equip? When I'm going with guldies then there is not problem with aggro, because they know that I need some time at fight start. But with pug it is real problem, because of pulling by dpsers and some of them has 5000+ DPS so I have really problems with taking mobs back to me.

  25. My spec is linked above and my gear level is around T9 (triumph emblem) equivalent. I don't usually log out in my tank gear, but you can look up Decedereful on Lothar in the armory to see what I'm rocking.

    For AoE, I always open up with DnD then HB for heroic tanking. If I know it's going to be a longer pull, I get my diseases up and use pestilence. I've never had a whole lot of problems with aggro unless I'm significantly outgeared. Make sure you're using Rune Strike a lot too, but those two spells are pretty powerful together.

  26. I've been looking for a tank spec for a while, and so far this looks to be the most broken down guide that someone can understand. I'm really looking forward to getting home, re-spec'ing, and giving this a shot... ... yes, I'm at work. lol.
    Thanks for the info!

  27. NP, let me know if you find anything wonky :-).

  28. Loaded the spec and only added one thing. after DnD and HB theres one red rune left so I added Boil Blood. Not sure if that does anything other than ae dmg. But I love this spec. This is awesome and I cant wait to finish out the t9 set of Koltira's (however you spell it). just need the badges and more cash for stones. thanks a bunch!
    the notes here on how to run single vs multi were invaluable. the first one i ran was a heroic (by accident) and it was successful.

    Thanks again!

  29. Ran it last night and it was MOST EXCELLENT!
    Seriously, PuG'd as tank, accidentally heroic. My gear score was on avg 1k less than everyone else in the group. 'twas Awesome!
    Let the crew know what was going on, and it was a great success. The breakdown on single vs. multi rotations was invaluable. Don't know if it will do anything, but at the start of the multi rotation, since there's 1 blood rune left and waiting for the cooldown anyway, i threw in Boil Blood. just ae extra dmg. not sure if that helps threat or not. /shrug

    Thanks for the spec, so far it rocks!

  30. Blood Boil works just fine. Glad it worked out for you :-).

  31. Hi, I just wanted to say that post is one of the most greatest posts that I respect alot. I also wanted to ask about two things. First, is there any update on spec the gemming way regarding 3.3 and ICC. Secondly, kinda related to the first, for ICC as DW frost tank would you gem parry or dodge more.

    On my tank i get the dodge from gear, but parry i gem it and i try to get gear with more parry on. Is that good or bad and why?

  32. I don't think there's anything new to take into account as far as gemming goes.

    I don't have the numbers, but I believe dodge is a better stat as far as damage avoidance goes. Parry, however, helps DK tanks in a lot of ways (threat mainly), so really both stats are pretty good. As such, I always shoot for a balance between the two, not gemming one to the exclusion of the other.

  33. Thanks for a very useful guide. While lvling I have been constantly changing through different tanking specs to try and find 1 that suites me and after reading this guide i have decided that DW is the spec for me :-)

  34. I have read this guide and it is great just wondering what you think of this spec

  35. Yeah looks good. See how much RP you are getting. If you feel like you're wasting some, you could lose Chill of the Grave and put those point elsewhere. I like Acclimation (but ppl say it's not worth it) and Morbidity is out there which helps AoE tanking.

  36. i want a blood dw tank!!!!
    unfortunatly i'll never have T_T, but your spec and rotation guide is very nice, i'm using it and i found it very simple and funny, and it doesn't need over power gear to work! thanks a lot

  37. Thanks! I'm sad this spec is going away too. I haven't even thought about how I'm going to spec when the new trees come out. I suppose it will be simpler though, since we'll only have one tree.