Monday, February 14, 2011

Demonology Guide Update

Today is Demonology update day (I know I'm going a bit out of my planned order). I'm going to summarize any changes here, and also note that I will need to do some linking when I get home today (I'm blocked from a lot of research sites at work). Like the Affliction specs, I'm transitioning this guide from an old post to a static page. Shouldn't affect a whole lot on the reader end of things, but there you have it. With that said, here we go.

Caught your eye yet? Well, here's the spec: 0\31\10. (Link Fixed).

Basically I'm filling up the first tier of Destruction and then taking Emberstorm. It helps decrease cast time for both Soul Fires and Incinerates (which we should be using a lot of).

Prime Glyph of Lash of Pain (raiding) - Apparently the Succy outranks the Felguard in single target DPS right now. I'm not going to use the Succy, so I'm going with Felguard. He's still good in AoE situations, and a bit more hardy when doing dailies.

Not really a change, but a bit more info:
Bane of Doom > Corruption > Immolate > Curse of the Elements > Shadowbolt Spam; Use Hand of Gul'dan to refresh Immolate and whenever it is off cooldown; Use Incinerate during Molten Core proc. Pop an instant Soul Fire when your Soulburn is off cooldown. Don't forget Demon Soul.

If you're in a movement heavy fight, you may want to make use of Fel Fire to refresh Immolate. With Hand of Gul'dan having a cast time for a refresh, you can use this to extend your time. It is never worth using when you can stand and cast HoG, however, so I find myself using FF very sparingly as Demo.

The patch changes have made it a lot easier to refresh exclusively with HoG by making Immolate last longer. It's not really a change, but it is a bit nicer I've noticed. Otherwise, everything is pretty much the same here.

From the same thread as my Affliction post, I nabbed:

Warlock_Demonology_T11_359 - Int=2.8297 SP=2.1983 Hit=1.9831 Crit=1.0709 Haste=1.0385 Mastery=1.2021

Thus, Stat priority isn't all that different from Affliction, except for one notable change:

[See guide... updated with haste soft cap]

Where before Crit was big for Demonologists, Mastery has become the bigger stat now. Gem, enchant, and stack accordingly. Still, apart from those considerations, you still have to hit cap (at 17%), and those other stats are still pretty good for you. Nothing earth shattering here.

Wrap Up
There was a short mention about the Succy out DPS'ing the Felguard right now. I believe it to be true, but, like with Affliction, I haven't seen the numbers to say how by how much. I can't believe that Blizz wants Demo 'locks raiding with the Succy and not with the Felguard (it seems like one of the staples of the spec, right?), so I wouldn't be surprised if a change comes along. For my purposes, I'll be sticking with the Felguard.

Also, keep in mind that you have the Doomguard and Infernal to use. EJ says in its demonology thread that the DG is better in single target situations, yet in the Affliction thread it says Infernal all the way. This confuses me as I'm not sure what is different about the specs that would cause a change like that. I've also heard where the DG is easier to control, while the Infernal tends to do his own thing. I will probably continue to use the DG in single target situations as a result.

And that's it for the updates. As always, let me know where my goofs are :-).


  1. "There was a short mention about the Succy out DPS'ing the Felguard right now. I believe it to be true, but, like with Affliction, I haven't seen the numbers to say how by how much."

    Last time I saw conclusive numbers, it was ~200 dps. My personal numbers (yes, I know, it's just anecdotal evidence, but still) are even closer together - I literally can't tell a difference between the two as far as my meters go (I'm still topping them though). I decided, since I'm not raiding on my warlock, that that's an amount I can live with. My felguard and I have been together since I rolled Queklain in TBC, and nothing's changing now. Plus the Felguard's Demon Soul effect is simply superior to hers.

    Anyway, let's see here... "Below 35%, you really heat things up" - I'm thinking this should be 25%, since that's where Decimation kicks in, unless you are referring to something else below 35% that I'm not aware of.

    The link to the 0/31/10 spec in your guide (and on this page) doesn't work; it just goes to Wowhead's front page.

    If your guide is supposed to be a general guide, as the title would imply, you should mention the Major Glyph of Life Tap. Having that quicker cooldown on Life Tap is fantastic in-battle; allows more time for pew-pewing. Lots of other guides also mention Glyph of Shadow Bolt, but honestly - mana reduction glyphs? On my warlock? Not likely. (I'm actually running Life Tap, Fear, and Demonic Circle as my majors.)

    Hand of Gul'dan should be used for more than just refreshing Immolate; outside of Fel Fire with the four piece bonus, it's the hardest-hitting ability demonology 'locks have, and should be hit on cooldown. (It also makes single-target questing a lot nicer with Aura of Foreboding. Stay over there, pesky mob, and DIE.)

    The 35% comes up again later... Decimation doesn't start until 25%.

    In the section about Metamorphosis and its cooldown, it bears mentioning that its cooldown will almost never be the same between uses thanks to Impending Doom - but unlike other classes where a talent causes spells to lower or reset a cooldown (i.e. elemental shamans and Lava Surge), there is no visible indicator via a spell overlay that Metamorphosis is ready for use again, so you really have to keep an eye on it.

    Er-- sorry about the wall of text. Demonology is just near and dear to my heart. :)

  2. Stop left me a comment... but I don't know where it is. I got it via email. Crazy nether. Swallowing good feedback.

    Ima answer it in a second regardless of whether it shows up, but I'm doing the hotfixes right now :-).

  3. HA! Found it. Spam filter... lol

    Thanks Stop - I totally fubbed the 25% thing. Brain saw what brain wanted. Should be fixed now.

    Thanks for the numbers - They reinforce my choice to stick with the FG too.

    For the link (you didn't read the parenthetical did you?). Sometimes they hide in there :-). I wish I could get to stuff at work, and always face the choice between waiting until home or putting it up now. I generally choose now because patience is not one of my virtues.

    I added a mention for Life Tap (and borrowed your link, hope it works) and tried to give a slightly larger nod to HoG in the rotation section. It's my understand that we should just use it as much as possible.

    Finally, I tried to obscure-ize Meta's CD with:
    (especially when talented and that sometimes changes based on procs).

    Oh, and I also need to add links to all my guides to these articles for comments. That or figure out how to turn comments on for pages (I'm not sure if that's possible). We'll see what I can figure out.

  4. Here's how to turn on comments for pages:

    At least, I think so. I don't use Blogger, and haven't for years... they've changed while I was gone. :)

  5. Awesome. Thanks Stop. That worked.

    Though, now I'm questioning the wisdom of turning them on. If I just keep updating those pages, the comments could get long and out of date and unwieldy. It'll be like reading old official forum threads.

    ...Except with only a dozen comments.

    Even so, I think I like the idea of pointing people to the most recent post, just because I think it would be easier to follow (and know you are in the latest conversation).

    I think that makes sense...

  6. K, Got the links updated as well now.

  7. Your "guide" contradicts EJ&MMO-Champ guides, just FYI and everybody elses...

  8. Are you concerned about any part in particular?

    My spec is the same as EJ except I swap Mana Feed in favor of Foreboding for the utility.

    My Glyphs are the same except for using the Felguard over the Succy glyph since I'm not using the Succy as noted.

    My Stats weightings are ripped directly from the EJ simulation.

    And my rotation is very similar to what the EJ article describes.

    I'll admit that I make several difference choices, but really the differences are few. Which in particular do you want people to be especially aware of?

  9. Reading the info on the Succubus made my eyes bleed T_T.

  10. Yeah, I know what you mean. I refuse to give in!

  11. Good morning Sir! :D Uhm just wondering, shouldn't you be casting the curse of element before you dot them up? Followed by a hand of Guldan. From what I understand of the game mechanics, it would be better to put those debuffs up before you dot them up as they buff the damage of your pet and yourself. I havn't touched my warlock for some time yet, so I'm not too sure about that but that's what I normally do

  12. It's really a moot point and here's why.

    BoD probably won't tick before I get CotE down. Corr may get one tick. I should probably do it before Immolate, but even if I don't...

    If you were to cast CotE first, spell damage is basically buffed 8%. That means those first few ticks that I'm missing, and maybe the Immo direct damage would get an extra 8%. BUT, by casting a non-damaging spell first, you're delaying the other casts, so you're missing some damage the other way as well.

    No matter in what order you cast CotE, once it is up, all is the same. Percent multipliers apply to all ticks once they are up. Thus, at most you might be missing a handful of ticks for some damage.

    Over the course of, say, a boss fight that is a few minutes long, you're only missing 8% off perhaps 5s (maybe 3% of the fight). So a drop in the ocean.

    I prefer to get the two damaging instants and then Immo up right away. It's just a personal preference. There exists a perfect medium where you're maximizing your damage with where you put CotE and I assume that's where places like EJ put it, so follow those if you'd like. Typically I'm on the move when I start anyways, so that's something that can be taken into account as well.

    Long comment short: it doesn't really matter all that much; do what feels best for you.

  13. Which Spec would you recommend for leveling?

  14. It's hard to say. Affliction has a lot of self heals that and with Soul Swap, it is now a pretty solid leveling spec. Demonology is hardier and the Felguard is quite handy (you have a lot more avenues of escape if you're getting swarmed).

    Personally, I level Affliction, but really start to use Demo when I get raid geared because Demo makes running dailies a breeze. At higher gear levels, Affliction doesn't preform as well because DoTs don't have time to tick.

    So it depends on how you prefer to play, but Affliction has always been my true love.

  15. Hi, quick comment on "My Stats weightings are ripped directly from the EJ simulation."

    If you look at the stats for that sim, you'll see it has 625 crit rating, 856 mastery rating and a whopping 1996 haste rating. So why would EJ get max dps at 359 ilevel if it was the "worst" secondary stat? Because 1996 haste gets you to 25% when raid buffed and DI'd, meaning an extra tick on both Corruption and Shadowflame, therefore a big boost to dps. Past that point? Yeah, haste is pretty meh, but ONLY because everything else has already been sacrificed to it so any upgrades from the 359 BiS gearset will be better spent on rebalancing the minimal levels of crit and mastery.

    If you run a sim when on a character with under 1996 haste, it's usually the best secondary stat, and if you run a sim with between 1896 and 1995 haste, it's colossally valuable.

    A sim output is ONLY relevant to the stats it's simulating, as there are occasions (such as your post) where blindly copying someone else's stat weights can cause you to give out extremely incorrect info. That's a warning that gets endlessly repeated, but apparently not repeated enough.

  16. So basically you just want to note that haste operates in plateaus, right? Its value will vary based on what you currently have. That's a great point.

    I've always said that the very best way to get appropriate values is to run your own sim. I don't choose to do this and just throw the weightings out there as a base to go off of. There is no substitute for understanding if you want to be the best.

    At the same time, is it an incorrect assumption that these are the weightings we'd see if geared to T11_359 as indicated? I'm not sure the info that I'm giving is incorrect, it's just important to understand where it's coming from, as you've eloquently pointed out.

    I don't believe the rough priority that I derive from the stat weightings at that level are blatanly wrong or deliberately misleading. I'm not trying to pass them off as perfection either. The point is, they'll get you in the ballpark if you're struggling to choose between pieces of gear at that level.

    Also, the important take home is what I note: mainly that Mastery is a much more important stat for Demonology than it is for Affliction.

    It is probably a good idea, however, that I pass along the link to Cynwise's excellent article on the haste mechanic in this guide as well. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

  17. Guide has been updated to reflect a deeper understanding of haste.

  18. My concern was much more general that a request to mention the current soft cap for haste. I just felt that to suggest a stat priority of...

    "Hit (until capped)>Int>SP>Mastery>Crit>Haste."

    ...that's only relevant to the miniscule number of players already at the 1996 cap doesn't help the great majority of players who are more likely to be looking for general advice. Personally I'd suggest the following as a "general" priority...

    Hit (to 1742) > Int > SP > Haste >> Mastery > Crit

  19. ...or, more accurately...

    Hit (to 1742) > Int > SP > Haste (to 1996) >> Mastery > Crit

  20. That's not a bad idea. I'll go ahead and update with this, thanks.

    In my personal journey, I'm probably a bit behind the curve so I haven't really gotten to the point where I need to be thinking about haste "soft capping." Thus, I recognize that my research/understanding into is only surface at best.

  21. K, updated and I shot you a link of gratitude.

    Would it be safe to assume that the same soft cap holds for Affliction too?

  22. It all depends on the DoTs you're using right? How did we get that 1996 value? Is that with the new duration of Immolate from talents?

  23. I actually hadn't seen this tool from Cyn before:

    Can totally help trying to math out where the sweet spots are. I need to figure out what it is for Aff'locks.

  24. From what my Sim has posted is that Haste will always topple Mastery until you get beyond 359 gear. Once you're beyond 359 gear, then Mastery seems to be the big stat to stack. But, I think that this is also reliant upon what your haste happens to be.

    This also happened to be for affliction, so I think that up until you have about 25% haste and are hit capped, haste will always dominate over mastery until you can run some heroic dungeons to land some sweeter gear. I've been stacking haste, but am unable to report my haste currently since Government computers block all sites that have the word "game" in the meta tag. *sigh*