Wednesday, March 9, 2011

At What Point Do You Give Up?

Here's a question for you PvPers. At what point, in your opinion, is it "okay" to say: F-it, there is no way we're going to win this BG, might as well fight in the middle? Is it ever okay to park your toon at a flag and turn your attention to the television program that had been running in the background, essentially "waiting it out" until the pain ends? When do you throw in the towel?

Obviously, this is going to vary from BG to BG, but an easy one to look at is probably WSG. For me, there is a point where we get down by two flags and the opposition is quite clearly toying with us, that I alter my strategy. Where before I had been trying to actually play the BG, now I retreat to the area of highest Allied concentration in order to score a few HK's. If that doesn't work, if we're still getting our butts kicked, I'll play a little game of keep-away.

You see, normally when you're getting thoroughly trounced (and we've all been there), four rogues, a DK, and a really badass healer will camp your graveyard. Maybe they'll throw in a Mage for flavor, just constantly AoE'ing your spawn point. Good times.

In that case, I'll figure out a way to rez away from the GY, perhaps by a body run, and then play hide and seek. At that point, the game becomes denying these farming bastards of as many HK's as possible. I find that I derive intrinsic amounts out of such a cat and mouse game.

I guess I should point out that I rarely, if ever, desert. It's not that the buff bothers me, it's just that I feel it's the cowards way out or something. I mean, I know sometimes it's not even worth the measly honor you gain by sticking it out through a loss. It's the principle of the thing.

Generally, the breaking point for me is when you've been beaten down to a point that it is extremely unlikely you'll stage a comeback. And, in any case, the rest of the group has already degenerated to such strategy "fighting in the middle" and "blaming others" and "de-identifying with their faction while advocating re-rolls." I guess I find I'm generally one of the last ones to throw in the towel. Usually this means I've tried to get to the objective on my own, and utterly failed. Probably because the opposing team just happens to be really good, or at the very least, operating cohesively. Or in the case of most of my Alliance trouncings: they had several healers and we have none.

What is your breaking point? What do you do to pass the time and get to that next BG? Is it ever acceptable to desert?


  1. Most of the time, I only give up with my leveling paladin. It's the time when you notice they have 1 prot paladin and 2 DKs that know what they are doing and one shot most of your team and they always run together. Suddenly, it becomes clear that those guys have better gear, higher levels and better coordination. Thus, your team is royally screwed.

    It may also become clear when their prot paladin just sits in the middle of the map instead of returning the flag.

    With my main, at maximum level and full Bloodthirsty, I never give up. If I have to run alone to get the EFC, even as holy, I'll do.

    And I only get deserter when it's blatantly clear my team is full of retards. Like the hunter that uses potions and whatever to get the flag before anyone else and decides to camp the enemy graveyard.

  2. I try to go with the "never give up, never surrender!" rule, but there ARE times where it becomes impossible to win.

    In WSG, a quick cap of the flag takes 75 seconds. If you have 2-3 minutes left and are down 2 flags, you've lost. That last minute is usually wasted if you don't already have their flag en route to your base. I don't vocally throw in the towel, but it's just like the last minutes of a blowout football game: it's done, we all know it, play through the end but don't get injured.

    There are times on my twinks that I'll just say... fuck it, I'm farming midfield. Sometimes the opposing teams are just too good (6 Hunters in WSG? We're screwed.) Sometimes we're getting camped, and I'll do what you're advocating- refuse to rez, or go get HKs somewhere else.

    But in general: never give up, never surrender. Fight until the scoreboard comes up.

  3. I'm usually pretty quick to decide whether the game is worth my effort or not. In my experience, it's easy to decide just from the first few minutes - like when both flags are held but people refuse to go engage the opposing FC, you're at one base in EOTS but everyone's at the flag spawn, etc.

    I try not to desert, not necessarily out of any noble reasons, but because a fast loss is still some quick honor. As a healer, I either guard that last base we have left (with TV in the background, yes), or keep guarding the flag carrier, but I don't try too hard. It's difficult for a healer to do anything that will turn the tide of the battle on their own.

    If we're getting graveyard farmed while the oppoosing faction holds the last flag, I refuse to resurrect. I figure that the less fun they have camping, the quicker they'll cap that flag and I can move on.

  4. For me it differs for each battleground.

    ---Warsong Gulch
    I only give up in WSG when we're down 2-0 and the other team has the flag and is obviously farming, /and/ my team has shown that they've given up. I've come back from a 2.5-0 victory multiple times due to the opponents getting cocky and thinking they have the game well in hand. I've also lost matches in the very same situation, so I don't give up until I know for sure we're beaten.

    ---Arathi Basin
    I don't give up here, ever. I take note of the fact that we've reached the point that we're completely screwed and have no chance of success, but I'll defend my node to the very end no matter what the outcome.

    ---Alterac Valley
    This is the easiest one for me to give up on because giving up the victory strategy of killing the leader and instead focusing on killing the opponent still contains a possible win.

    If we've had all of our towers back-capped, we still haven't killed either the leader or his commander, and we're down on reinforcements as well, then I'll go off and give up the fight. In those cases I typically go to the harpy cave on the north side and go kill the yeti, or I'll go pick up the repeatable quest to go leash a goat or something.

    If nobody is in the mines and the other team has them I'll usually go cap the mines to drag out the fight to farm as much honor as I can and make it last longer, but I usually only bother with those if there's still at least some chance that we aren't going to get facerolled.

    ---Eye of the Storm
    I give up here more than any other. There are so many people who have no idea how in the world you win in this BG that sometimes it's just totally not playable. If the group sucks and I can tell we're not going to win, I'll gladly /afk so that I'm not tempted to shove an ink pen through my eyeball or something.

    ---Strand of the Ancients
    This BG is so often a one-sided fight that I know within the first minute or two how it's going to play out. If our defense is destroyed in short order then I know we're screwed. If I'm in a siege engine and I'm getting CC'd like there's no tomorrow and nobody is trying to free me, then I know we're screwed.

    I don't /afk here, but if I know we're beat I don't mind finding a nice patch of grass to hang out in for 2 minutes while the other team destroys us.

    ---Isle of the Crusader
    I don't bother /afk'ing here either. You never really know for sure that you're going to win/lose here unless the other team is already nailing your leader while you haven't even gotten the gates down to 50%. Even then you know it's going to be over soon so there's no reason to /afk.

    ---Battle for Gilneas and Twin Peaks
    These two are still too new and fresh for me to say for sure at which point I would give up on them.

  5. Great feedback.

    I think I tend to fall in with the battle to the end crowd more times than not. Some of the most PvP fun I've had recently was when we got down by two flag captures and it swiftly became clear that the odds of being able to capture theirs was slim to none. (We also had 3 afkers from the start... didn't move out of the GY ever). So about five of us gathered up (the rest were out in various parts of the middle) in the flag room and made a "last stand." It was actually pretty awesome and we got some good HK's out of it, and it made the last couple of minutes good fun.

  6. It depends. Rarely do I just pass the time on any of my toons in a BG.
    Even in a hopeless cause, if I'm on my rogue, I'll stealth around looking for a lone player to gank. On my holy pally I'll look for the biggest crowd to follow and heal them while they fight. In short, if we've lost, I'll go for padding the numbers.

    I rarely /afk out of a BG. It takes something like, "I've tried six times to get out of our GY and couldn't."

  7. I'll only desert when RL stuff needs attending. And that has only happened a handful of times.

    I'm very, very happy for the 30min clock for WSG. If it wasn't for that, I'm not sure I would be using the Random BG tool.

  8. I don't ever give up, no matter how bad things get... of course I may have a couple of times, but not for a ling time.

    I treat each win or loss as a learning experience and I figure, if I can annoy my opponents, than I will.

    But then, I think I might be a bit perverse.